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What is your idealistic outcome? All of these cows are released into the wild and are killed within one to two generations by wolves or mountain lions?

The cows that exist now are essentially useless without farmers. If you are ethically bound with them, how do you come to terms with the terror they will live through until they die?



What do you think cows are, mindless? There is are wild populations of cows that do just fine, here's one[1]. Sure we helped guide their evolution a bit so they are kinder to us and have more desirable traits from our perspective, but they still have all the instincts and intelligence to do alright in the wild, not that I think they should be.

My ideal solution would be a steep decline in dairy production with a coinciding decrease in the breeding of dairy cows until they are gone and hopefully many moved to farm sanctuaries. Each life born into that industry is a short life of suffering.

This would help save many wild species as animal agriculture is the leading cause of species extinction and ocean dead zones[2].

Veganism isn't some simple "every life must live no matter what" it's that if we don't have to harm an animal we shouldn't. If we're ethically bound with them, how do we deal with the terror they CURRENTLY live through until they die?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_wild_cattle

[2] http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.htm


You linked to cows on an island that have no predators. That's meaningless in the context of cows from Idaho (the context of this thread) where they have to deal with the predators.

Your assertion that their life in a farm is worse than a life in fear of predators is largely unfounded and seems to be based on "no humans = humane" doublethink.


I didn't say they should be all let free immediately, you created some false dichotomy to aid in your construction of a straw-man to argue with. I answered your question and told you what I thought was my ideal, steep reduction in production until it's gone.

We choose to put all these cows into the world (even though we don't need them) and give them shitty conditions. The onus is on us just stop the cycle and let them drastically decrease in numbers and die out so we don't keep on bringing million more into existence.

Are you considering what your arguing? You think that life trapped in a container where you're forced to become impregnated every year and have your baby stolen within a few days after it's born is better than living free for a time with your herd? That view is divorced from reality. Mountain lions may rip your throat out, but they don't enslave your species and put you in such confined controlled environments that the only meaningful decision you can make is which way to turn your head.

Cows are herbivores, but just like us the extent of their desire doesn't end at getting food and sleeping. They're social creatures who care for their young and live in groups. Us putting them in cages and forcing them to produce milk 24 / 7 in not how they want to be.

EDIT:

Your argument about there being no natural predators is really pointless. I never said they should immediately be set free, that's a juvenile perspective. I do want you to understand you need to try and support your claims and do research, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feral_cattle.


You're anthropomorphizing cows with no basis in reality. It's difficult to argue against someone who thinks cows have the same capacity for thought and emotions as humans.

Mountain lions toy with prey and cause very violent deaths that can orphan calves leading them to starve. I fail to see how that is a better outcome.


You keep on trying to put words in my mouth... I didn't say they had the same capacity for emotions as humans, I said they had feelings and enjoyed being around eachother. Look up sentience, it's largely agreed all mammals are, which is why we have medical boards to review if an experiment is ethical to do on an animal.

I wasn't kidding about looking stuff up, you're the one arguing based on your gut feel of what you think the world is rather than trying to support your claims.




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