Biggest part of announcement was the HTML+JS part. Let that sink in- HTML+JS is now the premier way to write Windows apps. Who would have thought this day would come?
I'm sure they're not going to use ASP.NET controls. If WebOS is universally accepted as developer friendly I don't see why Windows which is planning for a similar toolkit will not be considered so.
And let me know when the day arrives when you can develop and run platform-neutral apps in Mac,iOS or in fact Linux. Don't be unreasonable. Thanks.
Nothing I wrote is unreasonable. The only real advantage of HTML5 on the desktop is that it has a shallow learning curve vs., say, iOS.
I didn't say it wouldn't be developer friendly. I'm saying that it really makes no difference that they are using HTML+JS if, like WebOS, they have tight coupling to the native OS API.
Also, I didn't say they would use ASP.NET controls, but something similar - rich controls backed specifically by the OS.
My point stands: Different developer toolset - same vendor lock-in.
Not quite. Safari for iOS is crippled when compared to the desktop versions. You have to write a native app over a web app if you want to allow the user to upload images or video, for example.
The world was pretty significantly different at that time: in 2007, we hadn't even seen 280slides yet. It wasn't obvious to everybody that you could write really great javascript-based webapps. Nobody was even calling it html5 at the time.
Pretty sure that was Joshua Topolsky. While being a self-proclaimed fan of WebOS, he's been ranting about Windows a lot lately in his podcasts at thisismynext.
Microsoft's API churn must be disconcerting for developers trying to figure out what to standardize on going forward. This is yet another API for writing Windows apps. WPF? Silverlight? HTML5? I would always have a fear that something else would come along and supplant the API I was working with.
I wouldn't say it's a tangential example as much as that Chrome extensions have a very good reason to be written in JavaScript--they're effectively contributions to the JavaScript of the page, and use the same DOM.
It remains to be seen if the other benefits of JavaScript carry over to Windows 8 enough that it's worth using it to code desktop apps. As for botching it, I suspect that Windows 8 will be a not-very-good «experimental» thing like Vista and Windows 9 will be what Windows 8 should have been in the first place.
Ok, just to be sure I understand that correctly - Microsoft has invested quite a lot of money into developing Silverlight and WPF and then promoting those technologies among developers as the best thing since sliced bread (not to mention the only way to write applications for WP7) and now they are doing that? How is that for the coherent vision and a clear message to people who'd like to write for their platform?
It gets worse - Silverlight is now the development story for WP7 while HTML/JS seems to be the premier way to write apps for Win8 (though I assume there'll be a way to get SL/C++ working with the new stuff - I'll be stunned if there wasn't).
After almost two decades of Win32 being the best way to write apps across the Windows platform, that has been upended in a year or so. That's a big deal. But we now have two competing stacks on the phone vs tablets/PCs which can't be a good place to be.
Disclaimer - I know no inside details of Win8 UI/development platform plans from my time at MSFT.
Microsoft invest lots of money into lots of different technologies, then dump them later. OLE, COM, Win16/32 and many many others have fallen by the wayside over the years.
All of the above are still used pretty heavily, even by new work coming out of MS.
You're RIGHT though, it's just the examples aren't so good. In recent memory: WPF, Windows Forms, MFC, .NET Remoting, DCOM...
They actually had a session at a recent dev conference (I saw the video) where they told you all about the underwhelming list of new features coming in WPF. The main message: WPF isn't dead! But it made things pretty obvious.
The trouble with a company the size of Microsoft is that there are so many people creating so much STUFF that it's nearly impossible for them all to work together. It may be better for them, as a company, to allow their various branches to function independently while exposing an inconsistent API story to the outside world. The alternative would be to make everybody talk to everybody else, causing all work to come to a grinding halt.
Microsoft has done that with every new version of windows. If you're looking at writing a media capture routine then there's one api for windows xp, one for vista, one for 2k, ...
I agree it's absolutely ridiculous. Supporting HTML/JS and being "open" might sound like a good idea but all it's going to do is turn former Win32/WinForms/WPF/Silverlight devs over to HTML/JS which then they'll lose a platform lock on as they'll migrate over to Macs. Good job Microsoft and good luck with that stock price.
So, if MS stayed focused on their traditional APIs, developers complain that they only care about proprietary technologies, but if they adopt HTML5+JS, they'll lose developers? Explain to me how that makes sense.
The goal of a company is to make as much money as possible. If you want to get people to develop for your OS over another OS you have to give them an incentive to do so. Using a cross-platform API disincentives one to only develop for Windows as now the benefits to using platform specific technologies available only to Windows has been marginalized.
If they're going for lowest common denominator apis like HTML/JS, then you get subpar LCD applications that Apple can blow away via better support in native apps and Apple OS specific APIs for Objective-C/XCode. Windows devs will then feel like they can do better than HTML/JS and move over to Objective-C/XCode and Apple.
In fact I'm strongly considering moving to the Apple camp after being a long time staunch MS supporter for my entire career.
Just like Cocoa is Mac OS X only. It's for developing native apps. The point is that MS is using open specifications as the centerpiece of their new platform.
This is a fantastic way to present information. it's beautiful. I would love this on a tv, or a bunch of displays in my house. especially with an epaper non light generating kind of display.
But... but... how do you make stuff? how do you design a house? how do you write code? It seems so very very consumer.
Side question: we're going to see the debut of OS X Lion soon this summer, as well. How often does this happen, when we have a year when both MS and Apple reveal their upcoming operating system?
This looks like a tablet OS rather than a desktop OS.
The elephant in the room is Office. How is Office going to make the transition to a Windows 8, touch-based UI and still be usable to the dozens of millions of current users?
The age-old desktop vs. touchscreen conundrum arises. Apple has two versions of it's OS: OSX for desktops, which is (currently) not a touch-based UI, and iOS for it's small and large tablet devices which is touch-based.
I wonder if they're keeping it quiet but plan on Office vNext being fully integrated into the new UI. I recall some leaked screenshots that seem to be leaning in that direction. Mmmm... here:
If they don't have a ship date yet, why are they showing this off? It seems like they're just asking for any of their good ideas to be stolen before they launch. Apple's approach seems to be to develop in secret and show something off just before it hits the shelves.
Is Microsoft just seeing to see how people react to this, leaving room to backpedal if necessary?
Sounds like HP (Palm) WebOS, apps are built in html and javascript. Of course, WebOS isn't built on IE. Not that I know if Windows 8 will be, but just guessing.
Looks like OS X and Linux have nothing to worry about here. It's the Microsoft Bob idea wheeled out again with a trendy minimalist feel instead of a dog.
It's Windows, there isn't going to be a change in userbase no matter what MS does.
Windows users will not switch to Linux (but it's the year of Linux on the desktop!) because of the usual issues, but serious (non-VS-using) developers will never use Windows either. As for OSX, Apple hipsters aren't going to spontaneously start using Windows, and Windows users aren't going to start spending 2x as much on their computers any time soon.
